First Run ends with...

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  • capdaddy222
    258 I6
    • Aug 16, 2008
    • 287

    First Run ends with...

    A tow home.
    I got out in the woods with the wagoneer for the first time yesterday. I had so much fun testing the rig. It Performed great.


    Storm Clouds on the horizon



    Nice run up to the trail





    Look at that articulation! 33's rubbed a very little. I havent trimmed any metal yet so I was happy.



    Unfortunately, not much later, I had some serious trouble. Going up a long hill, traveling around 25 MPH The transmission completely toasted. I lost all power. The trans just stopped moving and the engine would rev free. A big puff of smoke surrounded me as I coasted to a stop. There was a small fire at the interface between the motor and transmission. Hit it with an extinguisher.


    Had my buddy tow me to the top of the mountain where we got cell reception and waited for AAA.

    It is back in the garage. But I dont know where to go from here. I am so dejected. Trans still has fluid, but it isnt red anymore. It smells burnt. I guess I am going to have to pull it.

    Any way to pull the transmission without removing the engine?
    Last edited by capdaddy222; 05-18-2013, 01:53 PM.
    86 Grand Wagoneer Work in Progress
    360 Toasted TF727 NP228
    4" Lift
    33x12.5x15" tires
    "Shaggy" the Waggy
  • svining
    350 Buick
    • May 16, 2011
    • 828

    #2
    First, Think about what happened!

    The Fire could have been a broken line, spewing on your cat. Don't get too depressed. I do know how you feel after a big let down. Hopefully the tranny isn't toasted, but there are plenty of good used ones around. Hang in there!






    Originally posted by capdaddy222
    A tow home.
    I got out in the woods with the wagoneer for the first time yesterday. I had so much fun testing the rig. It Performed great.


    Storm Clouds on the horizon



    Nice run up to the trail





    Look at that articulation! 33's rubbed a very little. I havent trimmed any metal yet so I was happy.



    Unfortunately, not much later, I had some serious trouble. Going up a long hill, traveling around 25 MPH The transmission completely toasted. I lost all power. The trans just stopped moving and the engine would rev free. A big puff of smoke surrounded me as I coasted to a stop. There was a small fire at the interface between the motor and transmission. Hit it with an extinguisher.


    Had my buddy tow me to the top of the mountain where we got cell reception and waited for AAA.

    It is back in the garage. But I dont know where to go from here. I am so dejected. Trans still has fluid, but it isnt red anymore. It smells burnt. I guess I am going to have to pull it.

    Any way to pull the transmission without removing the engine?
    Flashlight
    "I started with nothing, I still got most of it left"
    1982 GW,Stock, No Emissions Equip.
    Mallory HEI, AMC 360, Motorcraft 2150

    Comment

    • pcoplin
      232 I6
      • Feb 17, 2013
      • 147

      #3
      Bummer. Both toasted trans and a fire?

      No problem pulling the trans, just support the oil pan with a jack and block of wood.
      85 Wagoneer 5.2/44RE/NP229
      98 TJ 5.9/46RE/D300
      01 F250 Powerstroke
      ***Space saved for a J-truck***

      Comment

      • blazer3664
        350 Buick
        • Mar 08, 2009
        • 974

        #4
        Bummer about the trans...... but at least you had an extinguisher handy for the fire. A fire like that can lead to a total loss of a beautiful rig very easily.

        Shouldn't be hard to find a 727 or have yours rebuilt.
        It will probably cost more than buying a used one, but I would have yours rebuilt by someone reputable. Then you KNOW you are putting a good trans back in, rather than having another one do the same in a couple months.

        Your re-builder may have some tips on what caused it to fail as well, so you can fix any contributing issues (blocked cooler or filter, restricted line, ect...) if there are any.

        Jim
        modified flares, removable top, OBA w/200psi tank,
        LQ4, 4L80e,NWF doubler w/upside down 203
        SOA w/ D44s F+R for now
        H1 wheels+tires (cut), hydroboost brakes
        custom shackle flip
        W/F150 springs
        -----Coming Soon-----
        snorkels,
        OX'd D60/14B-FF

        Comment

        • Overkill SC
          232 I6
          • Jun 07, 2010
          • 119

          #5
          Pretty odd to have the trans fail and have a fire. Is there still fluid in the trans? Did the cooler line break and spray it on the exhaust?

          Yes, easier to pull the trans from underneath than pulling the motor.
          '79 Cherokee "Super Chief": 401!, TH400, part time Q-T, 33-12.50s
          '79 J-10: 258 Clifford power, 3 sp man, 31x10.50's "Member, FSJ Prissy Restoration Association"
          '85 J-10 RIP
          '67 J Truck - anybody need a 327 or other parts?
          327 with rebuilt heads. Ran a long time ago. $200, I'll help you pull it.

          Comment

          • capdaddy222
            258 I6
            • Aug 16, 2008
            • 287

            #6
            I will have to research how to do the transmission pull. I havent crawled under to see what actually happened. The smell is ode de burned clutches though. My garage stinks pretty bad. I dont mind buying tools that I can keep around in order to do the swap. I assume a transmission jack is a nice to have? I wont have anyone else to help me manhandle those heavy components so if anyone has done this job single-handedly, please do share your experience.

            Funds are the issue right now. So i guess the decision of rebuild or replace will be based on the lower cost option.
            86 Grand Wagoneer Work in Progress
            360 Toasted TF727 NP228
            4" Lift
            33x12.5x15" tires
            "Shaggy" the Waggy

            Comment

            • Overkill SC
              232 I6
              • Jun 07, 2010
              • 119

              #7
              If it did blow a line and empty the trans. I'd try fixing the line and filing it back up. th400s are pretty tough.

              I'd definitely find some help to pull a trans. They are heavy and awkward as all heck.

              Good luck.
              '79 Cherokee "Super Chief": 401!, TH400, part time Q-T, 33-12.50s
              '79 J-10: 258 Clifford power, 3 sp man, 31x10.50's "Member, FSJ Prissy Restoration Association"
              '85 J-10 RIP
              '67 J Truck - anybody need a 327 or other parts?
              327 with rebuilt heads. Ran a long time ago. $200, I'll help you pull it.

              Comment

              • pcoplin
                232 I6
                • Feb 17, 2013
                • 147

                #8
                I'm wondering if you just lost your fluid, and that caused the slip. What is the level?
                85 Wagoneer 5.2/44RE/NP229
                98 TJ 5.9/46RE/D300
                01 F250 Powerstroke
                ***Space saved for a J-truck***

                Comment


                • #9
                  I lay odds the stock trans cooler in the rad is clogged solid. Same thing happened to my Eagle and my '84 J10 before I got them.
                  Jeep gauges are for amusement only. Any correlation between them and reality is purely coincidental.

                  Comment

                  • capdaddy222
                    258 I6
                    • Aug 16, 2008
                    • 287

                    #10
                    I just crawled under to get a first look.



                    The fire was coming out of the interface between the engine and trans bell housing. There is a leak that is emanating from that area. You can see the fluid that landed on the cross pipe of the exhaust.



                    So what should I do? Fill it back up and see If it will move? What can that hurt? I plan on pulling the pan to get a look inside. I dont know what that may tell me. I assume that if the clutches are toasted I will see some carnage in the trans pan.
                    Last edited by capdaddy222; 05-19-2013, 11:28 AM.
                    86 Grand Wagoneer Work in Progress
                    360 Toasted TF727 NP228
                    4" Lift
                    33x12.5x15" tires
                    "Shaggy" the Waggy

                    Comment

                    • Chief Gunner
                      327 Rambler
                      • Mar 10, 2006
                      • 588

                      #11
                      You can easily pull the transmission out yourself with a little time and effort. Take your time and take note of where nuts and bolts go. I did mine not too long ago. I was able to get the transmission out in a day. I would put the bolts, nits, washers, and clips back back on the spot they came from after I removed whatever component. I took my trans to a shop and had it bench rebuilt for $727.00. It took the shop a few days because they had to order the parts, but removing and installing the transmission would save you a lot of cash in the end. Sorry to hear about your issue, but take your time and it should go well for you. The one nice thing about these old rigs is that they are easy to work on. let us know if you run into any problems. By the way, a trans jack works wonders if your doing it your self. If you have a helper, a floor jack would work pretty well also.
                      The War Wagon: 1986 GW- SOA/SF on 33X12.50's, 360/727/NP228, CS 144 Alt, OBA
                      Wife's DD: 2012 Ford Focus SEL



                      My carbon foot print is bigger than your's.
                      WWW.SOCALULTIMATE4X4.COM

                      Comment

                      • Super mud
                        230 Tornado
                        • Nov 01, 2010
                        • 23

                        #12
                        Fill it back up, see where it's leaking from, see if it works, go from there.

                        Looks like it leaked from the input shaft seal. I brought fluid for a friends bronco that wouldn't move. It was spewing atf out the belhousing. Filled it up, then it moved. Don't know what he did when he got it home though.

                        It's probobly fine. I run my mj out of fluid all the time.

                        Comment

                        • Super mud
                          230 Tornado
                          • Nov 01, 2010
                          • 23

                          #13
                          Don't buy a trans jack from Harbor freight

                          Comment

                          • WHSII
                            Hack-Priss
                            • Feb 06, 2010
                            • 1804

                            #14
                            If the fluid is brown, something has burnt inside, clutches, bands, or maybe just the fluid too hot...

                            You might have a cooler issue as was said, but the fluid needs to be removed, it has gotten too hot, and will not do it's job.
                            WH

                            Dad's J10, Honcho, 1980 Sport Side
                            Build http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=118144

                            https://picasaweb.google.com/113072766039246994279/JeepJ10Honcho

                            Herbina 1987 Grand Wagoneer




                            Founding Member, FSJ Prissy Restoration Association

                            Comment

                            • capdaddy222
                              258 I6
                              • Aug 16, 2008
                              • 287

                              #15
                              OK, Changed the trans fluid and filter. It was black like motor oil. I found some metal sparkles in the pan. Not too bad.

                              Took the jeep for a run around the neighborhood. Of course I get to the top of a hill, in a traffic circle and my front drive shaft lets go from the transfercase. It started banging on the floor so I stopped, held up traffic and looked underneath. It was wound around the electrical harness. Grabbed some tools and disconnected the axle end and kept on going.

                              But the transmission shifts better now than before. It ran fine.
                              At home there is still a leak from the interface between the motor and transmission. I will let it sit overnight. But the leak is pretty constant.

                              Here is what i think happened. I was in 4 low. going up a long hill, the transmission was leaking and the fluid landed on the exhaust cross pipe. It caught fire. The fluid level was low enough to free spin the trans. I got out, saw the fire, and put it out. When everything had cooled down, I tried to put it in drive and it wouldnt move. The fluid had leaked enough to keep me from going anywhere.

                              So I think I have a pretty serious leak. The total travel yesterday was only about 70 miles. I checked the fluid level before I left.

                              So where should I go from here?
                              One thing I decided to do was put a transmission temp gauge on. Anyone have a link to how to do that? I also have a remote transmission filter kit. I will put that on as well for the added fluid capacity. Perhaps that will make the temp gauge install easier.

                              I guess I need to check the transmission cooler. Is there a scientific way to do that?

                              Im pretty happy so far. I may still have to put work into the transmission, but at least it dosent look like I am going to have to search for a replacement.
                              86 Grand Wagoneer Work in Progress
                              360 Toasted TF727 NP228
                              4" Lift
                              33x12.5x15" tires
                              "Shaggy" the Waggy

                              Comment

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